Space-Cast! #39. Arcing

Wee Aquinas is really just amazed we went to the moon. Like, the moon in the sky. And saw nary an angel there.

Ever heard of Arcs? Cole Wehrle has! Today on the Space-Cast!, we’re joined by the little-known indie designer himself to discuss Arcs from a few unusual angles: the debt it owes to trick-taking, the many literary inspirations behind the game, and its unusual development process. Also of note, some comparisons between Arcs and Brian Boru, a sidebar book recommendation, and Wehrle’s wariness of Balatro. Truly, we’re covering everything!

Listen here or download here. Timestamps can be found after the jump.

TIMESTAMPS

00:15 — Cole Wehrle is calmer in between game crises
3:01 — obliquely introducing Arcs
8:26 — is Arcs a trick-taking game?
16:55 — Peer Sylvester’s Brian Boru
26:11 — Balatro fans of the world, unite!
30:00 — the starting point for Arcs
36:26 — the literary inspirations for Arcs
43:30 — framing the player’s relationship to their world
51:25 — collaborating with Kyle Ferrin
58:31 — misconceptions and realities in development
1:17:41 — the perils of tutorials
1:28:07 — stewardship of game worlds

 

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Posted on July 3, 2024, in Board Game, Podcast and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 10 Comments.

  1. I wonder if Cole has ever read Ada Palmer’s TERRA IGNOTA books? Would be very interesting to know what he thinks of those.

  2. Whoops, now I got to that part where the question is asked in the interview itself. Anyway, I 10000% second the recommendation! It seems like an absolutely ideal match. Complex, asymmetric power relations, layers of history, philosophy, dynamic systems, utopianism and crises all wrapped up in gorgeously ambitious science fiction. Much to mull over.

  3. Oliver "Mezmorki" Kiley's avatar Oliver "Mezmorki" Kiley

    Every so often, one comes across a thing or a moment – a book, an article, a conversation…. a podcast – that sings to one’s heart. This podcast episode is one such moment for me. 

    Where to start. 

    First I want to applaud you both for drawing out such an interesting conversation. Hearing more about Cole’s design process is such a breathe of fresh air. The core of his process, of establishing a set of experiential goals to achieve and then iterating through different design expressions until the game nails the landing is awesome. It is a welcome break from the retreading past ideas and the formulaic designs that result in nice, pleasant, fine things that don’t push any boundaries. 

    Second, I was thrilled to hear about the background science fiction / speculative fiction reading that inspired many of the narratives of Arcs. Hyperion is one of my all-time favorite book sequences. More obscurely I just finished re-reading The Book of the New Sun (including Urth of the New Sun) and am just so blown away by the writing, depth, and scope of that work every time. Amazing to hear those were inspirations for Arcs and makes me even more excited to try the game (waiting for retail release). 

    And then on the topic of making 4X games. I designed a 4X game (of sorts) and spent years as a critic writing about them at eXplorminate. I came away from all of that very jaded and cynical towards the genre. 

    To use the parlance of Space Biff, the fundamental “argument” being put forth by most 4X games is not at all compelling to me. Whether set in a historic, fantasy or, most disappointedly, sci-Fi setting – 4X games are narratives about conquest and expansion, and the “victory conditions” such as they are often have no thematic justification or purpose (and I level this criticism at my own prior game too!). Sci-Fi stories, like those discussed, have so much more compelling things to say about who we are and what the future might be than recreating yet-another-colonization plot line. 

    A unicorn design project I’ve been working on for a few years is aiming to fuse 4X-elements (like trick-taking being an “element” albeit central of Arcs) with a narrative and event-based system. Have either of you played King of Dragon Pass? A bit like that – but potentially deliverable as a tabletop game (or more realistically a digital game with the mechanical transparency of a board-game). The concept also takes the attitude that other players & civilizations that are encountered are not de facto rivals but can take on a fluid range of relationships as everyone works towards a greater purpose (which ties into a grander narrative about the universe – very much in keeping with the spirit of Hyperion). 

    I’ve rambled enough. But suffice to say the conversation here was greatly enjoyed and helped rekindle excitement for ideas that I’ve been screaming into the void about. Indirectly, I feel a bit vindicated by this podcast 🙂

    • Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Oliver! (And thanks, too, for keeping it up until they got through my hyperactive spam system!)

      I have a love-hate relationship with 4X games (and civgames at large), so I’m always happy to hear when people are thinking along a parallel track. In a previous conversation, Cole and I talked about some of our problems with the civgame genre. One of those problems is two-sided, in that players wield too much sight/control over their civilizations. The “control” part of that statement is fairly obvious; historical potentates tend to be extremely reactive, while leaders in civgames can dictate nearly everything. But that’s connected to their “sight.” When we play civgames, we default to witnessing the world from a map, with a singular true north and firm boundaries. Not only are those anachronisms, but they’re such anachronisms that they distort how historical leaders thought of themselves: in first-person, surrounded by various forms of intelligence and influence.

      In both cases, one of the few examples to get it right is King of Dragon Pass. Which, yes, both Cole and I have played.

      I have a series in the hopper, probably titled “Uncivilized,” that looks at these problems in turn and talks about board games that offer various solutions to them. We’ll see if I get it off the ground.

  4. Really interesting conversation! I feel like I am not the audience at all for Arcs (or at least, my group is not) but the conversation about literary influences makes me want to ignore that feeling.

    Also, Gene Wolfe is, like, the master of using the “pregnant pause” between books, especially in the solar cycles. So it was fun to hear later in the interview that he was also an influence.

  5. I’d listen to a whole podcast of just Dan and Cole discussing and recommending books!

  6. Sounds like Cole needs to dust off his Tolkien. If one is seeking confirmation that Tolkien put significant thought into his middle-earth, by itself, one only needs to open to the first pages of LotR. Tolkien begins his epic tale with, not the story itself no no, but a long and completely unnecessary diatribe about hobbits and pipeweed. Hardly “emergent world-building”!

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